Breaking into Hollywood with writer/director Murat Unal

Recently, I had the chance to interview Murat Unal, a Berlin-based writer and director on how he managed to get his first-time feature film The Hollywood Turk picked up by Hollywood heavy-weights, Twentieth Century Fox.

”Never show something unfinished. Try to get it finished as much as possible.”

NSR

Now, films are like a huge undertaking. It’s not for the faint-hearted or the weary. As I understand it. You took on this film and you did it from scratch with almost no resources. How? Why? How did you enter into this lunacy? What possessed you?

Murat Unal

That’s a very good question.

I have to laugh now and now I laugh. At that time, I cried a lot, but I just love movies, y’know? Like many, many people who start out making them, I always wanted to make movies. I wanted to learn how to get that emotion that I felt when I watched my favourite movies across to other people, making them either laugh or cry or feel something. So that was the main reason I wanted to learn how does this magic work, you know?

And so that was the main reason. And yeah, I knew I would probably never get any funding or the money to make it. So I said, “OK, the time for excuses is over”. I’m going to take whatever I have, get whatever I can and just make it.

NSR

How old were you when you decided to do this?

Murat Unal

I started six years ago, so in 2014 I was 39 at that time.

NSR

So, it’s fair to say a late bloomer. But again, what did your friends and your family think about this? Is this something that you’ve been nurturing since, like a small boy? Or was this “Hey everybody, today I’m going to make a film”?

Murat Unal

Yes. I started late because I first studied and then after I studied. In my time at university, I realized, “Oh man, you have time to watch movies”, so I watched a lot of movies. And then I thought, “That’s great. I want to learn how to do that”. And my parents come from Turkey and are working class and then when you tell them you want to learn how to make movies, it’s nothing they can understand. So they said, “Well, first finish the university and still try but learn something that has some substance.

NSR

So, in your film, The Hollywood Turk, I see the relationship the central character has with his dad. Is that your dad in the film? Is that kind of the relationship?

Murat Unal

Maybe subconsciously, but not, you know? In reality, I just painted that character like that because I always thought that would be interesting. But it wasn’t the relationship I had with my dad. But now that you mention it, yes, there was that sense, “You want to do that? Don’t you want to do something else?” So, there is the similarity, but not on a conscious level, you know? I always thought this was somebody totally different from my father.

NSR

Sure, so because obviously, your parents would like you to go and get a proper job with a proper career and a solid future behind it. So, basically just so they don’t have to worry about you anymore.

Murat Unal

Exactly, exactly.

NSR

Okay. So, you decided that you’re going to make this feature film and it is a feature film? I understand you wrote the script yourself deduced attend any special courses or how did you prepare yourself?

Murat Unal

Um yeah, I had one guy helping me. I had the story and I learned just by reading screenwriting books, buying the books, listening to audio commentaries and then watching a lot of movies and reading some screenplays. After I finished university, I worked as an intern on a movie set so I can smell and see how they do it on German television and all that. And then you read a lot of screenplays and then you think, “Wow. Is that supposed to be good?” And then you always compare it to your favourite movies, which are obviously some of the best works and ever made. And you think, “OK, maybe I could do that better, or maybe I could do that really, really well?’ And so you learn by reading a lot of screenplays and studying a lot of structure in your favourite movies.

NSR

Was it always your intention to direct as well because you’re wearing a lot of hats, particularly as a first time director you where you are writing, producing, acting? Yeah, well, what hats aren’t you wearing?

Murat Unal

I always wanted to be a director because I thought, that’s the guy who says, “OK, do it a little bit softer, better, longer, faster. I don’t know”. And putting the magic together. And because I didn’t know anybody who would give me a screenplay, I would have to learn that. So, that came all out of necessity because I had no resources to get the people or I had nobody in my circle of friends you start thinking, OK, if I don’t have anybody, I have to learn it myself. It’s that’s just because of that. I didn’t want to, but I’d rather be just a director but it’s so… I think you sometimes cannot really separate these things. Sometimes you can. Sometimes you can’t. You’re getting into the writing. Somehow every director wants to have a little spin. If he doesn’t write the screenplay, even then he wants to make it more personal. So it gets interwoven at one point, and you have an idea about the acting in this movie. I didn’t want to act. I couldn’t find anyone, so I just had to do it because otherwise, I couldn’t have done the movie. So, it was just out of necessity.

NSR

So, on your shopping list of the impossible, how did you manage to assemble a crew and get so many resources? Because the film looks really professional.

Murat Unal

Thank you very much. I couldn’t in the beginning. It started as one person in a basement. That was really nice. I had a place it looked like… I don’t want to say how it looked, but just a mess. And the first crew I had a week before shooting was four people and three of them left after one week. So, I had just my costume designer. She was there. The camera lady left. She was actually really great and then the first and the second assistant director left because they thought, “we cannot do this” and then I had to postpone. Then I found eight people but most of them were not from Berlin. They came from everywhere and just stayed there. So I had no friends like you maybe had some friends and they all say, “Ok, let’s do a movie together”. I didn’t know anybody from the movies, because all the people I knew worked for money. So, the people I had to get were people who had no chance anywhere else. So I’d say, “here, come in my team”. So, that’s how I did it. I was ready to, in the worst case, shoot the camera myself, play every role because I was so desperate. I was so desperate. And I can tell you, I had so many people telling me, “You can’t do that. Nobody can do that”. And I was just, you know, I just had this feeling that I’m going to show you, even if it’s the worst movie in the world. I will do this movie. So, that was my mindset.

NSR

So, tell me about the lighting, because apparently there’s next to none or hardly any lighting at all in this movie. And yet the look of the film is very, very professional.

Murat Unal

Thank you. First of all, we couldn’t afford any lighting. I had two softboxes that cost 100 euros on Amazon, and probably most DOP’s would say, “Are you crazy? These two different light temperatures?” but we didn’t have any experienced DP. So, I just said because we can’t afford it and we have no crew and we have no money for this, let’s shoot everything outside as much as we can.

For interiors, whatever lights we have, we will put them there. Just so people can see a face. And then in the first week, the look of the dailies, I didn’t like them. So, I said, “OK, then now put these two softboxes which you are refusing to use, just put them on top for every interior shot we have. From now on. And that was my direction. And then I had an argument with my DOP.

I’m grateful that he worked for this movie. He didn’t like what I want to do, and we always had opposing views on how it should be done. But that’s in the end how we did it. Then we did some grading, and the Sony FS7 (which is a kind of semi semi-professional) has S-LOG possibilities, so, you could at least do something with this stuff in post. And that was always my hope, that some magician and some post-production time would get something out of these pictures then and that seemed to work.

NSR

Because that’s the other thing is the grading looks very, very good as well.

Murat Unal

Yes.

NSR

So, coming back to the crew, were they paid? Was this sort of like beg, borrowed and favoured? And if so, how do you convince people to essentially work for free?

Murat Unal

Yeah. So, the thing is, I always say to everybody “it’s not for free”. Even if you pay a little money or can’t pay any money because everybody is desperate to prove himself and get some credit. And if these people are at the beginning stage and they also have nobody that will give them a chance, y’know? No professional production would hire a 23-year-old DOP if you haven’t done anything before – “Sure, we will hire you!” -Y’know?

Everybody wants to prove themselves and get a name, and I think that should not be the way but if you’re starting out, it seems that’s the only way because it’s like the universe is testing you, y’know? If you really want to do that. You want to get over that obstacle and prove yourself and I think in some ways, it’s maybe not that bad. If you’re young, you can do that. You have no family, maybe. Maybe you just have to look after yourself. And basically in my movie, that was the case. So, I always say, if you look at it, “I’m not getting paid. This is not a good job”. I always say, “Look, there are many other things you get. You get a credit, maybe in a theatrical release”. Nobody believed that at that time that it would be even be finished, let alone be released. But if it works out, you maybe get a credit in a theatrical movie. You have something to show. The experience you gained, the people you met will take you to the next job because they liked you on the set and they say, “You know what, I’m now doing this work and I’m getting paid”. But on top, there’s also an opening for you because they’re looking for somebody and they would like to recommend you.

You see, these things are worth a lot of money, and sometimes people don’t see that. I always try to explain there is a lot more hidden value just by connecting with the right people. Now, if the movie comes out on television or something, then the people get residuals, royalties, all that stuff, which would have never happened if they just had looked at the money first. So, if you can afford it and you want to try to break into the industry to prove yourself, don’t look at it that bad. Just think, “can I afford to work a month somewhere else and can pay my rent and still be able to eat?” And then maybe you should do it because there are very valuable lessons you will learn that and not you cannot buy these things for money. That’s my opinion.

NSR

No. Fair enough, fair enough. So, tell me about the post-production process. And more importantly, how did you manage to sell this film to 20th Century Fox?

Murat Unal

Yeah, well. Everybody said, no. You know my first editor left after a year. He just had a different vision on this stuff. I had a different vision and I’m very grateful for him. He worked his ass off. You know, he really put in a lot of work and he was really doing great work but you have to have a lot of endurance and persistence because it takes so long. He worked during the day. I worked during the day and we edited after work on the weekends. So, over a process of a year and after a while, you get tired, y’know? You start to stop believing in the movie. You don’t see it anymore and that’s why there’s always needs to be one person.

NSR

But isn’t it that thing that Martin Scorsese says about “if you’re not physically sick when you look at your first cut, then there’s something desperately wrong?”

Murat Unal

[Laughs] I haven’t heard that, but that’s true. I got really sick. I really got physically sick with this movie. I had a pain in here because you’re so… I have still to this day some shoulder issues, and I had to get to physiotherapy because I got so much stress. Yeah, you’re always like in this position of the stress, and I really got ill. So, it really was that case.

NSR

How did you get Twentieth Century Fox on board? How did that come about?

Murat Unal

I wrote every distributor I could find an email for and everyone said “no”. If they said no, that was already nice because they actually answered. Sometimes they wouldn’t even answer. So, I really reached out to everyone, got humiliation, got laughed at, got everything. One of the major German distributors said something funny. I sent in my rough cut and he said, “we watched your trailer” and I said, “What? What trailer do you mean? I sent you the whole movie?” And at that point, I realized he hadn’t actually watched the movie. Then he watched it while he had me on the phone, he said “but this is not that’s not even high school. That’s not even film school level. That’s so bad even…” But you stay nice. You say, “okay, thank you for your time” and go away because you don’t want to ruin something, maybe for the future.

Murat Unal

But by then I was so desperate. I went to the Berlinale with a self-made poster which said “Best no budget romantic comedy of the year, looking for a distributor to make shit loads of money” That was what I wrote. So it was kind of funny and I wanted to grab attention. And funnily enough, there was this one guy from Fox and they already had said “no” to me prior. And he said, “Who are you? What is this about?” He was so impressed that I really stood there and I said, “That’s it. I know you already said “no” but I’m happy to send you again. Maybe you have some time?” And he was the finance director, a CFO from Fox, so, his word meant something and he liked it. It was a more polished version at that time. It had some music. It wasn’t great. It wasn’t mixed, but it was more watchable, maybe than the first rough cut. And this is the lesson I learned from this. Never show something unfinished. Try to get it finished as much as possible. Don’t think, “Oh, they will understand that this is not finished”. No, they don’t understand whatever they tell you. “Yeah, I understand”. No, they don’t understand. They will come to you and say, “… But the sound is this and that” always my recommendation to filmmakers is to try to get it as finished as possible because they don’t have the time to understand, “Oh, that’s not finished, or we will fix it. So, that’s my advice. I learned that the hard way.

NSR

so again, coming back to the story. For the people who don’t know, essentially this is a story about a young man who’s desperate to become a big Hollywood film actor, and it deals primarily with his ambition, but also focuses on the Turkish community here in Berlin. I’m kind of curious. When you sat down, you wrote the script and you came up with the concept of the movie. Was that the specific audience that you were aiming for or were you trying to make it have a more general appeal? What was your kind of thinking behind that?

Murat Unal

A very good question. I was thinking about two things. First, I wanted to make a broad movie that appealed to a broad audience. So I looked at what is working in Germany. I looked at the charts and the best performing movies of the years. They were always like comedies or romantic comedies. So I said, forget my arthouse movie, which I would love to direct first, which is an existential drama or whatever. I said, “OK, just try to get into the market, into the industry, and what could that be?”

So, I tried to make it a broad romantic comedy. The second thing I thought of was, what I think Cassavetes once told Scorsese. “Do it personally”. Do something, with a personal spin on any story so you can tell something personal. So I said, I have this Turkish background. Make it something, you know. People you know. And this is the second thing that got in, so I said romantic comedy, which is broad appeal but my personal spin is that I come from this community, so maybe I can bring in that flavour. So that was the idea.

NSR

Okay. So do you feel the film is an accurate representation of that community? Or is it? How can I put it slightly sugared so that it would be more commercial and transfer better, say to America and other foreign markets?

Murat Unal

Yeah. So actually, this is a very good philosophical question, too, because I got both. I got criticism from the Turkish community. I got praise from the Turkish community. But a movie is always just a movie, but then again, it’s not only a movie because people react to movies, and if it’s a huge audience, people think, “Oh, this is how Turks are”. And this is what part of the community was always afraid of.

And the funny thing is that it was only people that saw the trailer and never watched the movie. I had people coming into my audiences when I was doing a tour with the release and said Murat “I came here to tear your movie in pieces because I saw the trailer, I thought, “I know exactly what you’re going to do with us, the way you’re going to portray us”.

After he saw the movie applauded me. Thank me so much, he said “you totally turned me around because the movie is actually different than what the trailer is” because the distributor decides what the trailer will look like. And I was very happy when everybody saw the movie. I go into different areas and there is this cliche, but there’s also the breaking of the cliche. So, they felt safe. They said, “Yeah, you’re pointing at the bad parts, but you’re also showing good parts and it’s like balanced so we can laugh at ourselves”, but in a good way, you know? When you’re not laughing about somebody, but you’re laughing with it. So it’s different. And they could laugh with the movie about themselves, and that was very important to me. So every side could sit there and have 90 minutes of escapism but in a good way.

NSR

How much editorial control did you have? Here you are now talking to Fox. They’re warming to the idea and you’re a first time director. So, do you get the final cut? Clearly, you didn’t get final cut on the trailer otherwise it would have been far, far different. So how much control did you manage to have over your first-time baby as it were?

Murat Unal

Yeah, obviously they made another cut for themselves. They wanted to have it shorter, which I totally understood but you have to have these compromises, you know? Because I always say “I can have my own baby and show it to my friends and nobody else sees it”. Or I can do some compromises so I can get it out. And as long as I see some essence of what I was intending, and it’s still something there. Then it’s okay, and I made that compromise because obviously, I would have done a few things differently. And they obviously have the control because they’re putting in the money for post-production, for the release and all that costs money. So I said, that’s not hopefully my last movie show and let’s do it. I’m very happy that I get that logo in front of my movie and that will give me maybe the first foot into the door. So I was thinking on the positive side, not on the “well, that’s not my cut. I cannot put my name on that.” Yeah. So I think you have to make some compromises, or maybe not, but that’s at least I did it.

NSR

So, you’re thinking about the relationship down the road rather than this is a one time deal?

Murat Unal

Absolutely, absolutely. I always thought, Yeah, that’s not personally my favourite cut, maybe but I understand they have also put in some risk and are risking a lot of things. Go ahead, learn something and make it better the next time if you can. And, you know, be harmonious, be diplomatic, appreciate the relationship because they can say “no” any time. OK, no goodbye, you know who are you anyway? You know we don’t need you. I’m in the beginning position. I’m a starting director, so I said, “let’s do it”. And I said to myself, let’s use this as an experience to see how much you can manage to bring in terms of what is important for you. And they said “yes” to things I thought they would cut out. There are scenes in the movie when I thought, “this is the scene, they’re going to cut first. And they left it in. So it was a funny, funny experience.

NSR

So having done this. Having been on this sort of rollercoaster journey of being who you are in normal life and then now being the feature film director who got distribution and everything. Do you find that people treat you differently now?

Murat Unal

Yes, absolutely. I mean, some people are now contacting me who didn’t talk to me before. Unfortunately, not that many producers, but maybe that comes. I mean, nobody’s like throwing money at me and my phone is ringing all the time. No, on the contrary. You still have to write and telephone y’know? And ask, ask, ask if you can make another movie but and now they’re looking at you and say, “OK, let’s have a let’s have a coffee. Or let’s have let’s have a conversation”. So, that’s the next step.

NSR

Wow. So, having been through this process and if you could go back in time and speak to yourself at the beginning, what would you say?

Murat Unal

The most important thing I learned I think is to focus totally on the harmony of the crew. If you can get fewer people with the right mindset, it’s better than having more people who have a different view or make it very hard for you to work through the day. So, harmony is first, and because at the end you’re trying to create magic and it doesn’t come from… It can come also from fights. And people mean well but in my experience, which I learned later, it’s so important to have… You need to have friends to make a good movie in the end. And maybe you’re not really personal friends, but you have to have a good way and be harmonious and understanding. And that’s so hard to find. Today, I would say, if someone is starting to have problems, better say, “Well, maybe that’s not the movie for you. Maybe, we should part and at least we can say “hi” on the streets another time. But maybe this is not for you” Because they will make it very, very hard for you every day. And they will pollute the harmony, y’know. You know, one bad apple so to speak. And it’s not good for both. So that’s my biggest learning is look really for that chemistry, that relationship.

NSR

For sure. I think this friend of mine once said “attitude isn’t something you can teach”. People either have it or they don’t. It’s not what they say. It’s what they do. And the simple thing of like, Are you on time? Are you aware? Are you actually on top of your game? Or do you need to be constantly coached and managed? So, if you can take a crew who have got the right spirit, and you’re acting and directing and you’re producing, and you’re balancing however many other plates that are out of balance… How do you find time to teach your crew how to be a crew at the same time?

Murat Unal

Well… I should have coached or taught more. I wasn’t aware at that time because they were all beginners. Most of them were doing it for the first time. Or that they were doing it the first time in that role or maybe only on a short movie before or something like that. What I would really focus on is taking some time. If you can hire professionals, obviously at the beginning maybe you won’t but teach them what is important for you and take the time for coaching. I mean, maybe every end of the day. Or tell them what is important and why it’s important because sometimes they just don’t didn’t know that.

And it’s not done on film because you hire these professionals and you think, “OK, they know their job, but we don’t have to waste time for that”. And it’s sometimes it’s true and sometimes, even on the professional level, that’s not true because everybody thinks they’re on the same page, but they aren’t. Be on time. It sounds simple, but it’s not.

I had people that were always late. They were always late but they didn’t understand. I had people that were not friendly. Where you think friendliness cost nothing, y’know? But for some people, it’s not normal. And these little things mean a lot. And I would teach them, y’know? Look somebody in the eyes and says, “Hi” and start the day afresh. They’re such little things but they mean a lot and they cost nothing.

NSR

Right? So, how would you say the movie has changed your life? -Has it changed your life?

Murat Unal

It probably has. It doesn’t feel that way because I always feel like I’m in the tunnel. People have asked me this quite often say, “don’t you feel happy and proud? Now you have the 20th Century Fox logo in front of you. You got the movie in theatres and it’s on Amazon, and we crossed 1000 ratings more than many other big-budget movies…” And I’d say it’s not actually because my goal was never to have a movie finished or in the theatres. My goal was always to reach many, many people.

So in my mind, I’m still working in the tunnel and still promoting my movie. And once I have reached that goal, then I would be thinking, I’m finished. But then again, there’s the next one, y’know? Because after that movie, you want to do the next one. So, I’m always feeling like I’m still in the tunnel, but always trying to enjoy it, because that’s actually the fun. When you’re there, it’s over. But when you’re doing it and you’re looking back, that’s actually the fun. And I always should say I should enjoy this much more. Now I do. But sometimes you’re always impatient and you think I should have already done my next movie. Nobody’s noticing me. And why is my phone is not calling? My phone is not ringing. I don’t get any offers. And you think you maybe you didn’t do it You know, maybe it was a try, but you didn’t succeed. And these voices come every day. And then you have to say, “just keep doing it and doing it” and don’t stop. So, it’s a struggle still every day.

NSR

Do you think it’s easier for you now because obviously, 20th Century Fox doesn’t exist anymore? You’re now knocking on the much bigger, probably more scary doors of Marvel and Disney? What’s the way forward?

Murat Unal

That’s a good question, because in this time, especially because the industry is so shaken by the situation. I don’t know if I can get funding for my next project. I have a community now and I have an audience that loves the first one and wants to see the second one and there is some base. But I don’t know how I’m going to do that next one. I’m working part-time to earn my rent so don’t be afraid of that. I would recommend it to every young filmmaker and use it. I wrote the first sequel to the first one but everything got put on hold because of the situation. So, I don’t know if I can get that movie made. If cinemas are still open in a year or all that stuff but I still love making movies and I want to do something. Either it’s going to be a series, which maybe it’s going to be for streamers or network. I don’t know if I can do that rather than something for theatres, because no one’s putting movies in theatres at the mall. Or just a few. So I’d love to do something the next one because I still love it. I still love the process, but I have to earn my money or get some money to just do that full time. And that’s actually the hardest part is to crack the money problem and then you can’t do the creative stuff but writing a screenplay is hard. Creating a project is hard. That stuff beforehand, to get that time, that’s actually the hardest part.

NSR

So, the next film? Is it going to be a romantic comedy again, or are we going to see a change of tack?

Murat Unal

I think it depends. I still want to do entertaining stuff for broader audiences. Out of two things. First of all, I love arthouse and hard existential dramas but it’s hard to earn a living and you want to work. You want to work. Keep working. And there’s good romantic comedies or so-called light entertainment movies that are also very deep. I think they’re overlooked in some ways.

If you can do both and make a movie that works on both levels. One that entertains, but also gives some message and touches you on a deeper level and has some skills. I think that’s best if you can do that. That would be my biggest goal to achieve because filmmaking is so expensive, you just cannot. If you can find a way to make that and very personal movies and you have like a little budget and you can work on that it’s great. And if you’re happy, you should do that. But I want to reach many people because I think as movies touched me, I want to touch people and give some hope and some light and some smiles. Especially in these times to people and forget for 90 minutes that all the problems they have and maybe reach them. What is it? That beautiful line in Mary Poppins? You put it on sugar and you get the medicine?

NSR

A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down.

Murat Unal

Exactly. And if you can put some sugar around the medicine or some important message, and people get it and still take something away and have a good time. Then I think that’s the best.

NSR

Excellent. Fantastic. Thank you. Thank you for coming in. It’s been wonderful talking to you. And I’m really looking forward to seeing what you produce next.

Murat Unal

I thank you for being here. It was a pleasure, and we definitely have to talk another time.

NSR

Indeed. Thank you.